In an exclusive online interview with Matthew Gray Gubler Fans, “The Learning Curve” Director/Writer Phil McCarty, and Producer Phree Swearingen answered questions from us regarding working with Matthew Gray Gubler, what it took to bring “The Learning Curve” to life, and what they would teach if they found themselves in in David Sedaris’ position.
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Gublerfanlori, Phil McCarty, and Phree Swearingen
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Of all the short stories written by David Sedaris, why the Learning Curve?
Phil: There are a number of reasons we chose The Learning Curve, initially. Allow me to be sort of… arty for a second (or new age) (or west coast) (or crazy) (or schizophrenic) (or [word that implies a disconnect from reality]). One of the things that I love or find fascinating about art is discovery. In context of your question I mean, very frequently you make a decision for what you think is one reason, and then later on something you hadn’t even considered becomes the driving force for that decision, rendering your earlier reason sort of unnecessary above and beyond the fact that that reason got you to the second one. That’s an overly intricate way of saying it but what I mean to say is…
Have you ever heard a song, and INSTANTLY loved it, and then only weeks (or years) later, listened to the lyrics carefully and discovered that the song is describing exactly what you were going through at that time? Or maybe the song had nothing to do with your life then, but now it does, and it makes you love it any more? The Learning Curve is a lot like that for me.
The initial reasons we picked the story were twofold. Practically speaking, it’s a very simple story to shoot. Relatively speaking. The whole story (more or less) takes place in a classroom. In addition, it’s one of the few stories that don’t involve his family, so no need for kids, or the elderly. We could mostly work with college age kids which the world (and my phone) is teeming with. You can throw a rock and hit a college-aged person. I’m so tempted to make a joke about rock assault here but I won’t. I’ll leave that to you.
The second of those two folds (?) was that at the time I was actually sharing the script with Sedaris with the hope that he would turn and read some of my own prose, and grade it, much like he did for the students in the classroom. There was no greater ambition than that to be honest. I just thought it’d be cool if David Sedaris read and graded my writing, regardless of whether or not he hated/loved it.
However those two reasons, while being enough to spark the creation of the short, aren’t why it speaks to me now. (Not that it speaks to me like a ghost or a burning bush or whatever, but you know. It resonates, emotionally).
As we got further into production, I realize that, in a lot of ways, I’m a lot like the character in the story at that point of his life. He finds himself doing something that he always DREAMED he would be able to do. And deep in his heart he fears being judged incapable of doing it. Similarly, this was my first time really directing a production of any scale. I’d done a number of smaller fun projects with friends but this was the first time that 30+ individuals (and 11 actors) expected me to, at the very least, not completely waste their time. And the reality of directing is that by the time you are on set, Directing, most of the crew has spent an infinite number of time working with an infinitely larger number of directors than you have. If you’ve done your job well you are simply surrounded by people who know more than you and are better than you at their jobs than you might ever be at yours. It was very humbling.
Phree: It was chosen before I was on board the project.
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Were you a fan of David Sedaris before making The Learning Curve?
Phil: Absolutely. I first read Me Talk Pretty One Day in… oh I’m going to be super dorky and go to amazon to figure out when I bought that book.![]()
Wow. I didn’t realize it was that long ago. Jesus. Yeah, so I guess about 13 years ago I bought this book. I wouldn’t have thought that 13 years later I was making a movie of it. I was a kid, what did I know? Right?
Phree: Honestly, no. I had no idea who he was. I got a chance to read the script early on, and was super impressed. One of the best parts of this project for me was being introduced to (for me) a new, great author. Now, I’m a big fan.
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Has David or Matthew seen the finished film?
Phil: To my knowledge, No to both, actually. Matthew’s waiting to see it in front of an audience, and David isn’t particularly fond of watching fictionalized versions of himself on screen.
Phree:To the best of my knowledge, no.
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Matthew Gray Gubler is brilliant in this. It was almost as if he was playing himself. Was he your first choice to play Mr. Sedaris, or were there others?
Phree: He was our first choice, and we are still very thrilled to have gotten him to be a part of this project.
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How long did it take to film?
Phil: 4 days. We shot the majority of it in 3 days and then because of the Criminal Minds filming schedule we had to wait about 5 months to shoot the 4th day.
Phree: It took 3 principal days of photography, and then a pick up shoot months later.
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How was directing Matthew?
Phil: Um. Matthew ruined me as a director because he was absolutely perfect. Meaning: he’s a filmmaker first, he studied at NYU, and directs episodes of Criminal Minds among other things. And, as an actor on a long running show, he’s seen dozens if not hundreds of directors work, and been able to learn from all of their techniques. So he’s a better and more experienced director than I am, by far. However, and here’s where he gets to be almost magical. I -never- felt insecure about my lack of experience. He was encouraging, supportive, and happy to collaborate and equally happy to take direction, not that he ever needed it.
There’s a misconception, I think, or at least, one that I had going into this experience: director is based on the verb “direct” which seems very aggressive and like you’re telling people what to do, and how to do it. It’s not really the experience, or at least it wasn’t my experience. Directing isn’t like you’re (lets get nautical) in a canoe, frantically paddling on either side, trying to keep things straight. It’s more like you’re at the back of a giant boat, and you’ve got the rudder in your hands, and basically the thing’s going to go the right direction even if you get up and walk away, it’s your role just to keep it going straight.
Now, that’s a horrible simplification, and actually inaccurate, even as I think about it. It’s NOT that easy. It -can- be that easy, and what makes it that easy is if you surround yourself by really amazing people. It would not be inaccurate to say that every person on set was better at their job than I was at mine, so that made my job easy. My suspicion is that the only time directors have to get very DIRECTOR-Y is if someone isn’t doing their job well. That would cause a crazy micro-manage reflex, I’m sure. But… my crew and cast were all professionals and were brilliant, honestly, so I didn’t ever have to do anything except offer minor modifications here and there.
Back to Matthew: So, directing him was never a question of “Oh that was good.” or “Oh that was bad.” There was never an objective qualitative analysis of a performance. Only relative ones. Meaning, in the context of the piece, at large, which performance makes the most sense, or which is best, in the best way. Does that make sense? I tend to make simple things not make sense.
How was working with Matthew?
Phree: Matthew was an absolute pleasure to work with. He brought creativity, professionalism, and FUN to the set everyday. It is great to collaborate with such a talented cast.
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Would you ever teach a class as Mr. McCarty, or Mr. Swearingen, and what would it be?
Phil: I hope I get to teach one day. Actually. No. I hoped to teach one day. I just heard back from an old English professor of mine, from undergrad. He says kids now read a lot less than they used to. I couldn’t deal with that. I’d be crochety Mr. McCarty (It occurs to me that crochet, as an adjective, does NOT relate to crotches or crochet. Discuss.) whining about the good ol’ days when people actually read books instead of watching the movie. Yes it’s ironic that my first film is an adaptation of a book but there you have it.
As far as which class? Hmm. I’m obsessed with technology, human interaction, and relationships. So, I’d like to merge all three of those into a class. It’d be strange for sure.
Phree: Yes, for sure. I’d love to teach filmmaking one day. I was so inspired by many of teachers, I would love to be able to play that role for someone else one day.
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Name a moment in your life when you were in constant fear like Mr. Sedaris in front of his class.
Phil: Three of the four days of production were absolutely terrifying. I kept thinking “oh my god I’m going to break this. They’re going to see that I’m a fraud and KILL me. That happens right? Do crews kill directors?”
Phree: That’s never happened.
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Are there any other cities confirmed to play The Learning Curve?
Phree: At the moment, I don’t think so, but we have submissions out there and are working to get it everywhere we can.
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Any future plans with Matthew Gray Gubler, if so what?
Phil: We’ve talked casually about things, but nothing concrete.
Phree: There has been some “talks” but nothing concrete, yet…
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What do you miss most about working with Matthew?
Phil: Uh, he’s the happiest person I’ve ever met? Now, that’s not fair to him at all of course, that puts a burden on him, and I’m sure, like every single person out there he has shit that he’s not happy about, but -unlike- almost every single person I’ve ever met, he’s able to set that aside when he’s interacting with people, which makes him come across as the happiest person, and somehow that makes the people around him happier.
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What are your current projects?
Phil: I’m currently helping an author with a book teaser. I met her at a film festival in New Hampshire, and her novel sounds really exciting. It’s called “Muckers” and it’s basically hoosiers for football. That’s a reduction, it’s deeper than that but check it out., I think the book comes out this October.My writing partner (more on him in a sec) and I are currently working on various ideas.
Phree: I’m producing an “Untitled” feature that we will be shooting a trailer for this summer and aiming to shoot this Winter. Other than that, I just moved out to Portland to write my next projects, so I will have to keep you posted.
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Leaving out the budget, what was the biggest challenge you had to overcome in this project and how did you do that?
Phil: It’s hard to pick one, and it’s… here’s why this question is sneaky. There were a number of major challenges, and the way I overcame it, is by not overcoming them at all. We had two great producers, Phree Swearingen and Alycia Garcia, and they took care of those challenges for me and allowed me to focus on directing.
Phree: Oh man, easily the time crunch. I was hired as the Producer with 12 days ’til shooting. I was deep in post production on another film, and after spending a day on the phone with Phil, it was evident that there many elements not in place. I had to be in Florida, so Alicia Garcia (Producer) got the quickest crash course in Producing. Basically I was setting up meetings left and right, and having Aly take them. We were all scrambling to lock down crew members, locations, insurance, gear, casting, etc… it was challenging to say the least. And there were a few times we didn’t think it was gonna be able to happen. Thankfully, it did.
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Are you enjoying the feedback on The Learning Curve? Were you expecting this feedback as a response?
Phil: This is going to sound egotistical, but… yes. Absolutely. And here’s why it’s not egotistical. I’m expecting people to LOVE this movie, and LOVE Matthew’s performance because I love this movie, and everything about it, and it’s because everyone who was involved was a badass. It looks great, because Quyen Tran (my cinematographer) shot it. That’s not all she did, but it’s the easiest thing to label. The costumes look great because of Serena Duffin, Jeff Hall (editor) put it together in the funniest possible way, Tahnee Gehm’s animations are absolutely perfect, every single actor brought something great to their role, yes. So, I’m a fan of this movie because I’m a fan of all of the work people did, and I enjoy it so much it would kinda blow my mind if people didn’t love the work they did as well.
Phree: The feedback has been so positive it is great! It is hard to anticipate what fans response will be when you are so involved (bias).
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How hard was it to adapt The Learning Curve into a screenplay?
Phil: My writing partner is a fucking genius, so, not too hard. Can I say fucking in interviews? Freaking seems weird. But yeah, David Dong (my writing partner) is a genius, and David Sedaris is brilliant, so combine those two things together and it wasn’t hard at all.
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Was there anything in the short story that was filmed but cut?
Phil: Yeeeees. There was a sequence in the beginning, a dream sequence that we cut because… well, the story really happens when he gets in the room, and this scene sort of delayed him getting there. Also, film festivals don’t like long short films, imagine that. The first edit of this film was around 22 minutes long, the version you saw was sixteen minutes and 37 seconds.
Phree: Yes, some really good stuff too!
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Will you be releasing any deleted scenes or gag reel at some point?
Phil: Oh. Probably?
Phree: Hopefully.
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Without spoiling it, the special effects were amazing. Who’s idea were those?
Phree: They were the result of a brainstorm session between the writers, director, and producers.
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Do you like doing short films, or would you like to do a feature length film someday?
Phil: Yes, I enjoyed this, but would also love to do a feature, and a TV show. They all have strengths and weaknesses. Shorts are great because you can explore a simple idea very closely, and you can make something over the span of a few days. TV shows are great because you and your cast&crew get to be family and interact for an extended period of time, which sounds fantastic, if you love your cast&crew. There was a weird summer-campy feeling at the end of TLC, where I’d had this fun experience with 30-40 people, and there was just no way we were all gonna hang out again, or even really be in the same place. I found that to be incredibly depressing, but I’m emotionally fragile at times.
Those are some of the production based reasons of course, there are also slightly deeper narrative strengths and weaknesses to each format. Films are great for exploring an idea, but not as great as exploring character. If you’re with a character for 90-120 minutes, there’s only so much realistic growth and change that can happen before they seem crazy. However if you’re with that same character for 30 minutes a week for the course of years, you can approximate something that starts to look like the natural growth and evolution of a real person. And, by virtue of having watched that character for that long, the audience/reader/viewer does have a real sense of …, I don’t know, knowing that person? LOST is my current prototype for that– I still feel like they’re on the island somewhere. I’m going to be real disappointed when Breaking Bad ends. Had it been a 2 hour movie? Notsomuch. Not that that story would’ve worked as a 2hour movie but you get what I’m going for right?
Phree: A feature is my next step!
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If your in the Los Angeles area this week, make sure you check out “The Learning Curve” showing at the Landmark Theater, Wednesday night at 7:30 pm as part of the New Media Film Festival. Phil McCarty and Phree Swearingen will be in attendance so make sure you say hello.
Thanks to Jasmine for contributing some of her questions, and a special thanks to Phil and Phree for taking the time to answer them!
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